Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Whereas if a buyer says I'll give you your full asking price if you're willing to be creative on terms, meaning instead of 20% down, maybe I'll give you 10% down and I'll give you payments with interest at maybe three or four or 5%, which is a win win all around.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Welcome to this week's Wealth Builders podcast. We have got our favorite real estate attorney with us, Bill Bronchik. Welcome, Bill.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: Thank you. Great to be here, Karen.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: We're always so glad to have you. And we get in these conversations. A matter of fact, before we started recording, we were chit chatting. It's like, oh yeah, we need to capture this, but we have great conversations and I love it. Bill, you're my neighbor a little further away now. You live close by. You're such a great friend for me and Dave. We appreciate you and Jen so much and we're so, so glad to have you as part of the Wealth Builders family. And we're going to talk about real estate today.
And one of the things we're going to really zero in on is creative financing, just to understand how we can finance things. But let's get a little understanding of the market. So you always have your ear to the ground. So bill, what are you seeing these days?
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Well, nationally the number of houses for sale is increasing. We call that supply. So the supply level is increasing and when the supply exceeds demand, prices are going to fall. Now we're not at the point yet where it was like in 2000, 910 eleven where you had so much supply. And typically five to six months of supply is a balanced market. That means if nothing new went for sale, would take five to six months to liquidate all inventory. So we're at about, depending on where you are, somewhere between three and a half and maybe four and a quarter months, which is still technically a seller's market. But you're going to find from city to city and pockets within cities, some neighborhoods are doing well, some neighborhoods are going down a little bit and some are just remaining flat. But overall the market is still, I don't see any danger of just dropping, you know, wholesale dropping across the country. I don't think we're at where we're at that at this point.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: You know, that's actually kind of good to hear because it, I know sometimes people say, no, we want everything to drop to buy, but it's really not good overall to go through something I don't think like we went through in 2008, 2010 and yet there's a lot of articles out there. It's almost like they're trying to scare people.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Right, right. You see a lot of people take numbers and they skew them. They take a little bit of truth and they put a scary headline like, you know, supply is going through the roof. Well, it went from three and a half months to four months. Well, that's not a giant, you know, increase. It's an increase, but it's not giant.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Scheme of things from history.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: And the scheme of things from history where in some markets in 2010, we were over a year's worth of inventory in a lot of markets. So that was really bad. That means you had way more houses than buyers. Now there's at least the possibility this year of interest rates coming down. The Fed is talking about possibly maybe a 8th of a point or a quarter point drop in the Fed rate, which may translate to a similar drop. Mortgage rates, I don't see them going down to 3% this year.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: No.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Unless the incumbent can figure out a way to manipulate that into getting himself reelected, I don't even think he can do that.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: And really, that 3%, that's pretty unrealistic.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it's unrealistic. Historically, it's unrealistic. It's something. We've become so used to low interest rates for 20 years that all of a sudden, now that they're in the sevens, which is historically average, I think people are starting to get used to it. And this summer, you're starting to see more for sale signs.
Sellers there were waiting and waiting and waiting for interest rates to drop so they can get more for their houses are now going okay, I guess 7% the norm for now. So you're seeing more houses for sale.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: You know, some markets, like one of the markets we're in, I'm just amazed, Bill, that there is more houses on the market, but the prices are not dropping. They're going up. Like, why is that? Why are we seeing that?
[00:04:23] Speaker A: I just think it's still, supply is still below average. It's not really low. I mean, at one point in the Denver market, we were under a month at one point, which is insanely sellers market. Now we're creeping towards an average market, but it's still a slightly sellers market in terms of sellers versus buyers. So unless we see an extreme amount of new home building, which is starting to slow a little bit, or we see a situation where interest rates go up to ten, where the buyers just drop out of the market, and then that's going to cause things to fall dramatically. But I don't think either is a possibility in the near future, you know, just driving around.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: We're in Colorado Springs, actually, where we're filming this. And as I'm driving around here and even going up to Denver, I just can't believe the number of apartment buildings.
It seems like it's too much.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: It is, it is the supply. And these are new. A class aa, class aaa class, you know, the high end departments. These have been in the works for years, you know, to get permits and funding and get building permits approved. So they're just finishing out what they started and it's come to the point where there are too many high end apartments. So those rents are starting to drop. Now the middle and lower income apartment buildings are doing just fine because there's a limited supply of those. No new buildings like that anymore. So the numbers on the high end are skewing the average. So you'll see headlines like rents are tumbling nationwide. Not really. Maybe they went down five or 10% on the high end, but that skews the whole thing for all price classes.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Do you think that some of this overbuilt, I would call it like multifamily housing. Is that going to cause a real issue in the commercial market?
[00:06:20] Speaker A: I don't think it's that bad. It's softened, but it's not horrible. Like office buildings, for example. It's not a dramatic thing. It's more of a soft, subtle thing.
So I don't see that happening generally. High end apartment buildings are not a real good, solid money maker for investors.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: They're stable and they produce a stable return because there's not much that can go wrong in a new building.
But the returns aren't dramatic like on the lower income or middle to lower income buildings.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Okay, I'm asking one more here, and I know we're going to get into creative financing, but how do you are single family homes? Like, if you were to choose your best investment property right now, would it be single family homes?
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say single family homes in the median to lower median income. Those are the houses that were built between the fifties and the seventies. They're just, they're not building anything small like that anymore.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: They're not.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: So there's a limited supply of those and those will always do well. Even if the market does tank as it did in 2000. 920. Ten.
That part of the market didn't drop very much. Maybe ten or 15% where other neighborhoods that were higher end dropped 30, 40%.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. And that kind of goes with the three to four times median income. Some of the parameters that we talk about, which really brings us into people wanting to figure out how they can acquire properties.
There's a lot of loans out there that are sitting at 3%. But is assumable a thing anymore?
[00:07:50] Speaker A: Well, a lot of loans are assumable with the lender's permission, but a lot of lenders will say, sure, you can assume that loan, but we're going to step the interest rate from three up to six.
But with FHA and VA loans, you can assume them and keep the existing interest rate, but you have to be an owner occupant to do that. You can't do that as an investor.
So what some people do is maybe they'll move in for six months or a year and then move out. That's legal. Or have one of their kids do it for them. And this co buy the house together, people are doing that, but I think there's a lot of opportunity and people who own houses free and clear, that is, without a mortgage, who are willing to take payments for their equity instead of all cash. And in that way they'll get more for the property than when someone says, I want all cash. Well, there's only so many buyers that willing to pay all cash. And therefore, you know, this amount of buyers, this amount of sellers, and the price they're going to have to ask is lower to get it sold quickly. Whereas if a buyer says, I'll give you your full asking price, if you're willing to be creative on terms, meaning instead of 20% down, maybe I give you 10% down and I'll give you payments with interest at maybe three or four or 5%, which is a win win all around. Because the seller is getting a higher price, they get sold quickly.
There's no third party lender involved, taking fees out of everyone's pockets and the buyer could put less down and get a better interest rate.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: And that would be great for people that they might want an income so their house is paid off, right. They're looking for some income and you're saying that these payments would come in, they'd give them income and if they had any tax liability, it would help reduce it.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, one of the huge benefits for a seller in this scenario is that if they bought, let's say it was a rental property that they've owned for 20 years, 20 years ago, that property was worth probably 20% to 25% of what it's worth now. So the capital gains that would be due on a cash sale would be enormous for the seller, but if you make payments every year, then you spread the tax over the term of that loan, which could be 20 or 30 years.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: That makes sense because at first when you were talking, I was thinking like someone that it's their home, like owner occupied and they've got a half million dollars where they don't have to. But you just hit on something like investors out there that are ready to dump their properties. Many of them do own them free and clear. That truly is a win win. How do we find these properties?
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Believe it or not, about 34% of homes in America are owned without a mortgage.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: There's not as many properties with mortgages as you might think.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: That really surprises me.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's a good third of America that is free and clear. And mostly it's going to be older landlords.
If you, you could buy from public record when, when the mortgage is released off the property, when it's paid off, that's a transaction, that's public information, which is a list you can buy of people with free and clear properties.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: How do you, how do you get that list?
[00:11:00] Speaker A: Oh, Google, list of free and clear properties. And there are brokers who sell any information that is public is for sale.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: So I like that Google, just Google it.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: There's a hundred of companies, I mean that, that sell that information.
So any transaction that happens publicly is a piece of information that gets sold through list brokers and information dealers and things like that. It's not hard to find that list. Also, if you just driving by the neighborhood and you see a for rent sign and it doesn't look like a property manager, just looks like one of those little red and white signs like an owner doing it themselves.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Ace hardware.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Just call the number and say, hey, I'm an investor landlord like you. Do you have any interest in selling?
[00:11:46] Speaker B: That's a great idea.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And just talk to them and sell them on the benefit of, hey, you know, if I can give you a higher price than if I wanted to pay all cash and you could spread your tax liability over 30 years.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: Wow, that is, that's a really good strategy.
Okay, so we talked about assumable loans, we're talking about finding cash or people that own their homes free and clear. What would be another way for people to creatively finance? Because it just seems like Fannie and Freddie Bill are getting so tight on investors, they're penalizing even second homes minimum of like two points or something. So we have to, you know, find ways to acquire property outside of what we used to do.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Right. Another way to make money in real estate. So you. This wouldn't be owning the property necessarily, but controlling the property to make cash flow is to lease a property from the owner.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Not a lease that you're gonna live in, what we call a master lease that allows you to sublethen. So you lease it from an owner who's got a very low payment because he has a 3% loan, and you have an option to buy it at an agreed upon price. And it doesn't have to be dramatically below market. You know, ten or 15% below market is enough.
And then you can sublet it at market rent. And if that market rent is higher than the payment you're paying to the owner, you can make monthly cash flow.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: So why would an owner be okay with that? Why wouldn't they just go from, I'll just rent it to someone rather than go through the sublet? What's the benefit?
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Good question. So normally, if I'm going to do a transaction like that, I'm going to ask for a four to five year lease, and that way they know it's rented for four to five years. And my sublet is not necessarily my sublet money is not what guarantees he gets money. I'm saying to the owner, you're going to get a payment for me every month whether I sublet or not. That's my problem. But I'm going to make money by subletting it. And I'm not a property manager, but I'm going to deal with the property and its problems rather than you dealing with the property and dealing with the tenant. So I'll find the tenant, I'll deal with the calls, I'll deal with the repairs. You just get a check every month and you don't have to worry about it.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: So it's really the security of that. And then would you have to, of course, make sure that lease said that you could sell?
[00:14:04] Speaker A: Oh, yes. And I'm right up front with the owner about that. I'm not going to sneak one, sneak a sublet in there. I'm going to be very clear that my business model is such that I'm going to lease it from you to cover your mortgage payment every month. And I have to know that that's less than market rent, at least three or $400 a month to make it worthwhile. And then I have the option to buy it at whatever price we agree on, and that's good for three, four, five years. So if I can sublet it, in the meantime, and rents are going up and I'm still making the same payment then my spread goes up every month. Now, you could sublet it to someone like a single family, or you can airbnb. You don't need to own the home to airbnb it out. To do short term rentals. You could lease a property for five or even ten years if you wanted to, and then just sublet it as a short term rental, as an intermediate term rental. Some people are doing things like traveling nurses, specialties like that, executive rentals, or even some people are even doing them by the bed in the room for senior care living. Oh, instead of putting. So instead of giving 20% down, plus renovating the house to turn it into something like that, you could give the seller first, last, and security, and then now you have a pile of cash to convert the home into use as a senior care facility.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Interesting. So you'd have to do look at zoning and things like that. Hoas, of course, would not be a fan of that. Okay, so if looking at something like that, when do you come up with a price as far as, like, being able to buy, to buy it, you do that on the front end?
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Usually I like to do it on the front end. Sometimes I've done it where we say, okay, when I go to buy it, we get an appraisal and it's an appraisal times.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Okay, so you can define it.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: You can define it, but I like to do it up front. And let's say, you know, the house is worth 500 and we agree on 450, which is not a huge discount. That's about 10%.
Well, if in three years the property goes up in value dramatically, well, then I'm going to exercise my option and buy it. But if it doesn't in three or four or five years, if it goes down, then I just walk away. But in the meantime, I'm still making cash flow.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: That is such a good idea. You know, another use for homes that I've just found, I guess, during the COVID time is what about a house? And then you rent out the rooms, or it's like an office. So like instead of a company renting a commercial space, they actually either acquire or they rent a home. And then the bedrooms, instead of them being bedrooms, are actually offices.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Oh, sure. Shared office spaces. Oh, well, people are doing it in commercial realm.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: You know, a lot of places are doing the, you know, the shared workspaces and things like that. But if it's a good location that is in a residential neighborhood, I don't know how well that would do in a typical subdivision where everyone lives there, but if it's on a major road where there's a mix of people who live there and offices, that could be an excellent way to do it.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Wow. And then you get the appreciation the owner does. I think that's a really interesting concept. A friend of ours, you know, Lance Walnut, that's actually, they purchased a home and it was in an area, and that it's mixed use or the zoning somehow it worked with that. And then the studio is in that.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: I've seen it. It's wonderful.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's right. You've been there.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: I have. Studio envy, yes.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: But I just thought, my goodness, that's a really smart deal, because if people aren't in demand for commercial properties, it can go right back to a single family home.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Exactly. He didn't do anything that he couldn't put back together.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Wow. That's good. All right, so what other ways would you say, if someone wants to get in the game and they don't qualify for these standard mortgages, how else can they creatively finance?
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Well, you can use partners money you could find.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: Someone who has extra cash or maybe has an equity line of credit on their house they can access at a reasonable rate. Or maybe they have a 401K or an IRA that has extra money and they can use that to partner with you instead of going to a bank and borrowing at seven or 8%. Or some loans are as high as 9% for investors.
And then you could do that in combination with, let's say, getting the owner to carry the payments. The first example, and let's say the owner says, I want 100,000 down. Well, you don't have 100,000. So you go to someone who has the money and say, you put up the 100,000, and then we'll be partners in this house and we'll make payments to the owner every month.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Wow, that's good. And let's talk about iras. You just helped Dave and I through this. And actually it was sharing with you. We just closed on this property yesterday.
And it seems to me that people, they don't think they have money. And then when we talk to them, they're like, oh, yeah, I've got this Ira that's sitting here, this four hundred one k. And when they learn that, wow, I can use this for real estate state. Yes, it is, like, really powerful. So can you just share a little bit about that? How does this work, Ira? Money?
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Sure. So if you have an zero, four, one k, or Ira or even any kind, almost any type of retirement plan, you can roll it into what we call a self directed Ira. What does that mean? What that means is you can direct your investment into more than just stocks, bonds, securities, ETF's, and, you know, cds. If you use like, fidelity mute, you know, I'm just picking on them because they're the biggest.
You log in and it'll give you a choice. You can get mutual funds, you can buy ETF's, you can trade stocks, but there's no option there for real estate. Now, does that mean real estate's not legal to buy in your IRA? No, no, no. It's just that they're not real estate brokers, so they're not making any money. So they go, shh. We're not going to tell you about that. So what you have to do is you have to change your custodian from Fidelity, Schwab, the big ones, to a boutique custodian. And there are probably 50 of them nationwide that will do this. Now, they're a little more, their fees are a little higher. It's two or $300 a year, but they'll allow you to invest in anything the law allows. And for an IRA or four hundred one k, the only thing you can invest in is insurance policies like life insurance or collectibles like comic books or jewelry or car, you know, painting. That's it. That's the only exclusion. So real estate is fair game for an IRA. So if you switch from one of the big custodians to one of the boutique ones, you just tell them, listen, it's not click to trade. You have to fill out some forms. But you fill out a form and say, I want you to wire the money to this attorney or title company for a closing. And we're going to buy a piece of real estate in the name of the IRA account.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Wow. And there's other ways to, that's, we won't, we could actually do a podcast on.
So we're just in the middle of this. So I'm really excited about all the little nuances that we were able to find. But there are ways, too, that you can invest. You just have to follow the rules and guidelines. And by the way, Bill does this. He helps you with it. So, Bill, what is the best way for people to get a hold of you if they want some help with this?
[00:21:24] Speaker A: My website for my law firm is Bill. This is my email, billronchecklaw.com, and my website is obviously bronchiclaw.com dot.
So you can contact me through there. And that's something I help clients do, set up a self directed IRA and help them wrangle around the rules to make sure they're doing it legally.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And while he is the best, which, many of you know, you work with Bill, too, so, yeah, I think it's good. That really opens up the door for people with other ways to finance. Is there anything else that would be feasible for people that maybe aren't experts to find a way to finance a property?
[00:22:07] Speaker A: How much time do we have?
[00:22:09] Speaker B: At least five minutes.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: FHA, the Federal Housing Administration, which does regular FHA loans for owner occupants. Occupants with just 3.5% down. And then the government guarantees a loan for the other 96.5%.
They have an investor program called a 203K loan, which allows you to buy up to four units, single family duplex, triplex, Fourplex, for just 3.5% down.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: What?
[00:22:37] Speaker A: And they'll lend you the fix up money as well.
[00:22:40] Speaker B: Do you have to live in it?
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Well, that's the cash. You got to live in it. Well, you say you intend to live in it for a year. Again, as we talked about earlier, do you actually have to? Can they stop you from moving out? No. Now, don't lie and don't move in. They will check and you will get caught, and you will get charged with loan fraud. But if you intentionally move in, put all the utilities in your name and live there, or have one of your children live there, or a nephew or a niece live there, and then co buy it with them together on the loan, they could live there for six months or a year and then just move out. And then. So. Or if it's a. Let's say it's a duplex, you can live in one side and rent out the other half, and then after a year, move out of your side and rent that one, too, and do it. Get another loan and do it again.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: And so they do an arv after repair value appraisal. What about the improvements?
[00:23:36] Speaker A: Yes. They lend you the money for the improvement, but the only catch is you can't do the work yourself. You have to hire a HUD approved contractor.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: General contractor.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. So you can't, you know, do it on the cheap and keep the difference in the money. I know you're Thinking, yeah, no, you can't do that. It has to be a HUD approved contractor who does the work before you move in.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: OKAY. That was the other Thing I was.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Going to ask before you move in. Right. But if you look on HUD's website, you know HUD gov and just type in 203k loan, it gives you all of the criteria there which you can do.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: I think that is a great option for some people because even we're always looking at properties and we like the distressed ones because we can fix them up and get a nice arv. But that could be a great answer for some first time home buyers that are really having trouble finding properties where maybe they're just finding one that's run down, they don't want to move into it. But if they could qualify, I think this is a great option.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: It's a great option to live in it.
If you're looking for properties in a neighborhood where there's very few for sale and they're all beautiful, you maybe buy such a not so beautiful house and borrow the fix up money and then you could after a year or six months move out and then rent it.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Boy, that is really smart. So Bill, you've been through, well, how long have you been doing real estate?
[00:24:55] Speaker A: 32 years.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: So you've seen some things you've been through some cycles.
[00:24:59] Speaker A: I've been through a few cycles.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: So when you look at the cycle that we're in now, like, what would be your assessment?
[00:25:07] Speaker A: You know, I wish I had a crystal ball because then I would have kept more properties than sold them over the years, but, and I would have swore 2018 was the end of the market. Yeah, and I would have swore that Covid was the end of the market.
So it's hard to really prognosticate these things with certainty. But for at least in the short term, I don't see any drastic changes one way or the other over the next year, especially being an election year.
Now, depending on who gets elected, might change things. If republicans take over, in theory, business does better, interest rates come down, the market does better, in theory, the opposite of democrats. But we could be totally wrong about that because world factors and unknown wars and unknown spending, it's really hard to say you're definitely going to do better with this party versus that one. Those are just generalizations.
However, if the economy, the Fed looks at the economy as if it's doing too well, they want to raise interest rates to cool it off, to combat inflation. That doesn't seem to have worked very well.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: Not this time.
[00:26:25] Speaker A: Not this time.
But that's the way they operate. So in theory, if we go to more of a flat GDP or a lower GDP, interest rates should come down, which would make mortgage rates come down.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: That would be good for people. I mean, in a way this is normal and it's actually been really good because there is investors that have kind of just gotten out of the game because they're focused on interest rates.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: That's true. A lot of investors have gotten out of the game, which means less competition.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:26:57] Speaker A: In 2010, when I was buying up houses like crazy, people thought I was insane. But those houses have tripled, quadrupled in value. But it, it was tough. I have to say that until about 2014 it was tough to rent them and break even.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: It was tough, but now they do tremendously well and they're almost paid off.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: Great.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: However, I don't see getting out of the game anytime soon. And if I do, I'm going to sell with seller financing like we talked about because some of these properties I bought for 50,000 that are worth 450 now and there's no way I'm selling that for cash. Cash and getting murdered.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: That sounds like a pretty good problem to have, Bill.
[00:27:34] Speaker A: It's a good problem to have. Yeah, yeah. It's a good problem to have in some sense. But you know, creating the stream of cash flow for myself and avoiding taxes is a good thing.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And you, I know you're not an accountant but we always say you know more about taxes than most accountants. So certainly most attorneys, hands down you are the best.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: It's interesting because we were doing, I don't know if it was a webinar or coaching call but Troy Peterson has been, he's one of our real estate coaches. He's been in real estate for about the same amount of time you have. And I asked him like hey, what's that one thing that you've learned? And he said the same thing. He said I wish that I wouldn't have sold and flipped houses and found a way to keep them. He said if that was the case he would be on the beach today, you know.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Right, right. Well in 19 1994 I was buying houses downtown Denver for five or six 7810 thousand dollars.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: I remember I bought a house once for 7000 on an American Express card and flipped it for 15 a week later that house is worth no less than 450.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: Oh yeah. And it seemed good at the time.
[00:28:41] Speaker A: But people who were saying it because downtown Denver was the worst city in the country just about. And when people said oh the going to renovate they're going to put a ball field, I said I don't care if they pave the streets with gold, it's it doesn't matter. It's, it's, it's a, it's a city. And like most cities, they're terrible. I didn't see the urban revitalization of cities across the country. I missed that. So, you know, live and learn, you know?
[00:29:07] Speaker B: Yeah, but those are lessons we can learn today.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: When we look at properties. And that's what's so helpful. This has been awesome, Bill. You're always so amazing to have on this podcast. I learn every time, which I'm sure a lot of you do, too.
And we've actually got something really fun coming up that I believe you are a part of, which is the real estate boot camp. And that is coming up in August. And that's a five day we get online and we've got different coaches speaking each night. Completely free, by the way, so that we can help people to learn about real estate. And I to learn more about that, you can go to wealthbuilders.org and there'll be a banner right at the top. And then we'll also be talking to you about the real estate masterclass during that time, which is a great way we're going to open enrollment. And then we do have the real estate workshop coming, too. I know that's a lot of real estate there, but if you just get in on the bootcamp, we'll tell you about the rest of it and you don't want to miss it. So, Bill, any final, like, wisdom words to share with people today?
[00:30:06] Speaker A: Well, you know, a lot of people are sitting around waiting to see if they should buy, and I think the opposite should be mentality. Real estate. You buy and then wait.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Oh, wow, that is really good. So buy, wait, get through the cycles, right. And find a way to keep that property.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: Right. Because if you, if you can survive the downs in real estate, you'll always get wealthy.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: That's so good.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: You'll always get wealthy. In the long run, there's ups and downs, but in the long run, real estate always goes up.
[00:30:33] Speaker B: Oh, that's so awesome, Bill. Thanks again for being on today. Thanks all of you for joining us, our wealth builders family, God bless you and make it a great rest of the day.
